E.R.N Podcast – Kelly Sullivan

Podcast Transcript

David: Alright guys another episode of the ERN podcast executive recruiter Network, today we’re blessed to have Kelly Sullivan from Dima group guys Kelly thank you for being on the show.

Kelly: Thanks, Sir, for having me.

David: Awesome, tell us about the Dima group who do you guys help and why?

Kelly: Primarily we’re focused on helping nonprofits across the US primarily because we see that there’s a need to help them identify qualified candidates who are both mission-driven and highly skilled, so we look at ourselves as matchmakers.

David: Mm-hmm now tells me why not profits there are so many other industries out there, nonprofits have that stigma being all frugal let’s say let me try to go with them as your niche.

Kelly: Well I mean they’re not now profits are frugal I think if you look at why they’re in business and business to help other people. So it’s easy for us to connect because our mission is not just to find candidates for them but find people who are excited about the opportunity to work for someone else. So, it’s just a good pairing for us.

David: So, it’s the culture fit.

Kelly: Yeah.

David: Awesome so now tell me about the state of the industry, right now was unemployment’s at an all-time low there you hard to find Candidates in this market am I right.

Kelly: It is, and I don’t care what industry we’re a marketer and finding candidates right now is challenging, and with the advent of Technology candidates can look at other companies very easy to see if it’s something that they want to be a part of. With some of the research we’ve done, we find it most candidates don’t even start researching a company until they get their first call. So, it makes it that much more challenging right, so you have this candidate who you believe is going to be a good fit they do some research on the organization, and then they drop out.

David: Oh, man, that has to be frustrating. So, what are some of the tips, I mean you do this all day every day you guys are expert at finding the type of quality qualified candidates for nonprofits. If I’m a hiring manager, I’m an owner of a non-profit I need to find that perfect candidate what are some of the tips that you can recommend to meet in this market.

Kelly: I think in this market is it’s not just about selling the position anymore so if you look on a job board right now, you’ll find a lot of organizations or recruiters who are trying to sell a position based on requirement and task statements and what candidates need to see if they need to see who the company is and why do they need me right they want to understand their value that they’re going to add to the position before they even apply. My research shows that only 10% of the people who go to a job board for an application will complete it which means you’re losing 90 % of your candidate pool yeah says you don’t have the right information.

David: I got it and what can I do to get the right information besides contact you, of course.

Kelly: I think is you know put their brand out there what is the company’s mission and put a statement out there saying this position will help us to do these things; therefore, this position is vital to us.

David:  So, it’s not just top level they have to show the impact of the position, so that’s what’s going to get the candidate excited.

Kelly: Right, I mean if it’s a data entry position and how you having me doing is entering thousands upon thousands of information it’s brain-numbing. But if you tell me hey this is to help us do this to help us find solutions for this, then I feel like I’m a part of something versus just another cog in the wheel.

David: Yeah, it’s like believe that guy hands on the keyboard.

Kelly: Right, and people I mean and nowadays especially in this climate people want to know what’s in it for me all right I can take this position but is there any professional development is there any chance of advancement can I use this experience to and a better job later right that’s what people care about.

David: Mmm So, what got you in this whole recruiting game in the first place.

Kelly: So, I was getting my second master’s. I got my MBA, not with a concentration in human resources. I was working in a big for-profit institution, was going to school again full time got laid off because I couldn’t split my time between school and work and it was hard to find another job, it took me a year and a half to find another job, and I was like, but my resume says I have a master’s I’m going for a master’s got all this experience I should be able to get a job right. So, I focused on that point on I just focused on what’s wrong with the process it must be broken because if they didn’t want to hire m, it was something wrong right and when as far as to do my dissertation on effectively filtering resumes to eliminate bias. So, kind of fate right it kind of drove me in this direction.

David: So now you mentioned like your dissertation are kind of like how-how – like filter out by itself do you find that so a big deal for a lot of nonprofits right now I mean they’re first to see the candidate a pool is that something that is top of the list top of mind for a lot of owners and nonprofits right now.

Kelly: I don’t think it is that’s probably part of the problem right because most hiring managers feel that their sound will help them make the best decision right and they don’t realize to what degree they’re actually biased right, for example like my mom has been in health care industry for you know 30-some years when I had her do my study she was like I know I’m not going to be biased because I’ve done this for so long we get back the results, and it was her bias right it’s just harmful, and we were based on name recognition directly if we heard someone went to MIT hey they must be smartly excited they went to some junior college got the same degree it’s like but they went to a junior college they must not be as talented umm so it’s really helping people see that they have the skills and ability just because they didn’t work at a place that you recognize or went to the school that you realize doesn’t mean they don’t have what you need.

David: And indeed that’s a benefit for the organization for the business because if you could have a full pool of quality candidates because you’re not biased, you’re able to snag that talented person before your competitor does, that only benefits you as an organization.

Kelly: It does, and as recruiters, we play a fine line right because for us we still have to sell a candidate, hmm right so we have to some degree satisfy to some of those biases while helping them see that those biases exist right so we played it that delicate tight rope.

David: That makes a lot of sense now. If I’m a candidate, and I feel like I’m being judged because of my name or because of where I went unfairly and what are some of the things that I can do to kind of like have my resume stand out or you know showcase my talent.

Kelly: I think one of the biggest challenges most candidates have, I don’t necessarily want to say that they’re lazy. But if you think about it, technology has allowed us to apply to several jobs at once. I can use to 10 posts with one keystroke if I’m in Career builder, a monster even and indeed it’s just one click at a time, the challenge with that is you’re competing against another hundred two hundred people for the same position and if your resume isn’t customized for that position. Or release does the best to sell your experience you’re going to quickly get overlooked because as a recruiter I’m looking for what looks great on paper especially as a direct placement firm I’m looking at what looks best on paper that my client will believe looks good on paper.

David: Yeah, it’s customizing that to what you know like they’re looking for eating what if you find someone that you know like hey this person bean excellent fit it might not be the best fit on paper, but I believe they’re a great fit how do you go about him in that situation.

Kelly: We modify the resume.

David: Mmm So, you provide resume coaching, and you help them.

Kelly: Yeah, I mean if we look on paper and say the man they have enough for me to talk to them and we talk to them when we start digging into. They have more experience than what the paper is telling us then we work with them to modify the resume to showcase it better that’s the only way we could get them through is if-if that piece of paper helps sell them.

David: That makes sense, so recruiting is a billion-dollar industry right why do you think it why you believe companies have such a hard time finding candidates on their own but what’s stopping them from doing themselves.

Kelly: They could, one of the challenges that they have is their HR staff or their recruiters typically are multitasking, so they’re not just concerned about recruiting they’re worried about new ACA law, or new FSLA standards, or original documents onboarding, and they have one position that they’re working on and a lot of organizations depend on job boards to give them good results. Up until recently, that was doable because your unemployment rate was so high everyone was looking for a job now we’re at a point where unemployment is low, and most people aren’t really looking at when we find out what research tells us is 70 percent of the job or workforce isn’t even looking for another post. Which means it’s you have to find passive candidates. Research shows that what 70% of people are open or willing to move to a new mission. There’s no we find out if it’s coming from someone they trust then they feel better about it like if I say hey David I found this company they’re looking for a VP or a president of marketing. I think you might fit you know you’re likely to be like well what are they paying and what do you think my chances are right.

David: Coming from you, I’ll look at that opportunity whereas I’m not searching drawing boards for another position right now, someone I trust I’ll take a look at that.

Kelly: Right and then on top of that right because skills are at a premium right now people come, they look for you right how many emails you get probably on a weekly monthly basis and hey I got this opportunity, might you be interested.

David: True.

Kelly: So, with highly skilled individuals, they’re like well if I need a new job someone’s going to find me anyway.

David: Man good stuff, Kelly good stuff. I think we’ve given the audience a lot to think about now if I’m a non-profit owner or hiring manager how can I best get in contact with you and utilize your services.

Kelly: Email me at Kay Sullivan at the Deemer group, and they can find us on LinkedIn they can find us they can go to our website and reach out to us that way or if they want, could give me a call directly my telephone number is three one two five eight three seven three four eight.

David: Awesome, so guys will let you put that up in the show notes we can get in touch with Kelly hope you enjoy this episode see you next time.

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